078: True Visual History of California Part 3 | David W. Rickman, Illustrator and Historian

Exploring Historical Illustrations and California's Cultural Heritage with David W. Rickman

Watch to the full YouTube video

In the final installment of this interview series, historian and illustrator David W. Rickman delves into the history of Russians on Northern California's coast, his contributions to national and state parks, collaborations with the Smithsonian Institution, and his esteemed Sutter's Fort Costume Manual. 

David also discusses his forthcoming book on clothing and material culture in the American West, 'Where Worlds Met.' 

Throughout the conversation, Rickman highlights his endeavors in historical illustration, including his projects for Alviso Adobe, Fort Ross, and other national parks. 

David reflects on nearly participating in a Hollywood Zorro series, emphasizing the importance and challenges of historical accuracy in visual storytelling. The episode is a treasure trove for history enthusiasts, offering rich insights into the cultural tapestry of early California and the American West.

00:00 Introduction to the Final Interview with David W. Rickman
01:01 David's Work in National and State Parks
05:27 Sutter's Fort Costume Manual and Upcoming Book
07:25 Challenges and Insights in Historical Costume Research
15:51 Illustrations and Projects for National Park Service
20:40 Hollywood and Historical Authenticity
24:40 Conclusion and Upcoming Events

Transcript

Damian Bacich: 0:00

Welcome to the third and final installment of my interview with historian and illustrator, David w Rickman. In this final episode, we get into subjects such as the Russians on the coast of Northern California. David's work in national and state parks all over the west and the East coast as well, and his work with the Smithsonian Institution. We also talk about his well-known Sutter's Fort costume manual and his upcoming book where Worlds met about clothing and material culture in the American West, which is something I'm really looking forward to reading. So without further ado, let's sit back and listen to the final part of my interview with David w Rickman. I am Damien Bass. Welcome to California Frontier. Are there other illustrations that we, that we should look at and talk about?

David Rickman: 1:05

Please, please. Um, yeah,

Damian Bacich: 1:10

Let's see. Should we go on to the next one here? The

David Rickman: 1:13

yeah, so I've, I've had, I've been extremely fortunate, you know, for years I worked in exhibits for Delaware State parks and I'm glad I did because, you know, little pension and, and health benefits for the rest of my life. Very helpful. But since I took early retirement in 2010, I have been very fortunate to have a lot of really wonderful assignments come my way. And one of the best was Alviso Adobe, which was done by an ex, uh, a company called CI Group, uh, in the North Bay area. And they contacted me to do this. We met at the Aviso Adobe in Milita, and I. These were a couple of the illustrations that came out of that project. It was, it was such fun to actually be able to sit in a room and imagine what it might've looked like in the 1840s. And to actually put some of my, um, my research to use, uh, the fact that, uh, men,'cause these buildings weren't heated, uh, often sat in their, their cloaks and their hats, uh, while indoors. I mean, even Mariano Viejo has described doing that. Um, and the, the clothing on the figures on the right, uh, based on my research, he's an older man in the 1840s. So he's wearing knee Bri, he's not wearing the cals. Um, his wife's dress, interestingly enough, is based on a fragment of a dress that is in the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles. It's of most beautiful copper colored silk satin, which I'm afraid doesn't quite carry in this illustration. But, um. It was something that I wanted to show because so much had been said about, uh, what had been called the so-called Chino Blanda look, which is, I'm partly responsible for that. Uh,'cause I thought it was called Chino Blanda when I first started out decades ago. It wasn't. That was a phenomenon from Mexico. Pet Coten and, and, uh, shams were simply Petco and shams in California. But more importantly, in the 1820s, California women of a certain status began changing away from the pet, coten chamise and starting to wear dresses. And so I wanted to make sure that we had pictures of women wearing dresses in California, because that's so seldom is shown in the pictures. Um, or if they are shown, they're shown as these highly ruffled monstrosities that no California woman would ever wear. But you know, the imagination of some illustrators, uh. Go and, and movies go to things that are, are somehow ruffles mean Spanish. I dunno why. Maybe flamenco.

Damian Bacich: 3:58

Probably should we go to the next one?

David Rickman: 4:02

Yeah, please.

Damian Bacich: 4:05

Ah, here you are

David Rickman: 4:06

this is me many years ago. As you can see at the Smithsonian, I'm photographing a, uh, a cueta, which is actually made exactly like the, the old cueta that were used. I full size cues, I should say, that were used by the, uh, the Spanish sold tota, uh, where they got their name. funny thing about this one is even though it was made of multilayers, of white buck skin and um, and trimmed with red cloth the way the originals often are, there was no way to close it. And if an adult wore it, it would probably only come to their hips. So my guess is it would probably be for a child. And you come across from time to time articles of clothing that are made like an adult, but for a child I've seen BOTAs, uh, leather leggings, uh, worn by, uh, vaqueros Eros, and they are made for a toddler. And, and so that's what I think we're looking at here. But this was put in just to show that I do go to museums. I do look at real things because I think that's the only way to get to the truth about uh, uh, what was actually worn or used. And this is the first California history book, clothing book that I, I did, which was the Sutter Fort Costume Manual. Uh, and that was back in many years ago. And it. With my first attempt at seriously dealing with the sources, the, the actual artifacts and the written, uh, descriptions of what California's, well, I mean, there were many different cultures represented in this, including native Californians and mountain men and US sailors and so forth. But this was my first effort to actually put it down in a scholarly way, and it's the first one as far as I know, that would ever by anyone that attempted to handle this as a serious scholarly subject. I was able in 2012 to actually use some of this information for the, uh, the Sutter fort, I mean, I'm sorry, the Fort Ross, uh, bicentennial in 2012. But that was just one of many costume programs that I've actually designed. And, uh, uh, it was fun to actually see, be able to, to see it. Done. Well, I don't know what's happened to these costumes if they're still in use or not, but it was good to see it work once. Um, but the frustration with the Suter Sport costume manual was that I can do drawings of how things were worn or what things looked like, but the eyewitness pictures, and there are so many eyewitness pictures, uh, I would've liked to have included in the costume manual, but there just wasn't the budget or the, the means to do it. Um, since then, so much has come out that museums you can find online and you can find them for free, which just wasn't available back when the Su fort costume manual first came out in the 1990s. So, uh, some years ago, California State Parks approached me again to write Sutter Fort style costume manuals for the entire state for. You know, each individual park. And I said, uh, no, it's not, it's not many different costume manuals. It's one great big costume manual of, of what was worn in early California. So if we go, I think to the next slide. This is the book. It's where Worlds Met. It's been promised for many years. Sadly, we were almost ready to make the big push to finish it last year when the, the real force behind the project, uh, the lady who, um, originated it and even, and, and followed even after she retired from St. Parks, Karen be from San Diego, died unexpectedly about the same, well, at the same time that we were having the conference in, uh, uh, at La Parisa model, uh, two years ago. And so the whole project ground to a halt in 2024. And. The other person who was working on it, uh, a wonderful interpreter, uh, administrator, Heather Hol of California State Parks. Um, she was promoted to run all interpretation in California, so this little project kind of took the back shelf, so to speak, rightly so, because she needed to get her, uh, get firmly in control of what she was doing. But luckily, uh, late last year, they contacted me and said, we want to get it going again. And, uh, at the time that I was out for the conference this year, um, I met with Heather in, uh, in Sonoma and we're moving ahead with it, and I'd like to promise that it will be out this year, but I promise that so many times that I would be embarrassed to do it again. But I think it's very likely that it will be out this year. This is the first volume. Volume two will go from 1848. Through the Gold Rush to 1860, by which time you have the railroad coming in, and anything that they're wearing in New York City, they're wearing in California. So it's, it's not really worth doing costume manuals for after 1860. I, there are some illustrations that I did for it, which are on the next slide, I believe, and here's where I want to, where this volume was fun because I was able to kind of break the stereotypes. My vaqueros in silhouette might look something like Joe Morris, but in detail, they're very different from Joe Morris. You'll notice the, the types of hats and the way the, um, the leggings are and such. They're very different from that Also with the women. The first dresses that were worn in California as they're described, they were very bizarre. They were long and very tight, and the sleeves were actually. Not connected to the dress, but held on by shoulder straps, which is very bizarre. Um, but that's my reconstruction of, of what was worn there. The idea is to, um, not overturn or break myths, but to show more fully what it is, uh, that was actually worn to the best of my knowledge at this point. Um, and my hope is that with this book, which will outlast me, um, it will serve as a foundation for someone to come along in the future who has more skills than I have, or new sources of information that I don't, and, and move this subject forward if they can. I, I really hope that they do. I'm just sorry, I won't be here to see it. Um, but yeah, it's, it's been a great, great project, this book. And it wasn't just about. California's, when I did both the Sutter Sport Manual and this one, it's about all non, uh, all, all people in, in, uh, California at the time, other than traditionally dressed Native Americans, which I have dealt with in in other publication. Um, so these are the Russians from Fort Ross, uh, as he might have appeared, including the pink shirt, which was recently misinterpreted by a, uh, a scholar as being a silk shirt because it's based on a, uh, uh, eyewitness testimony to one of, of, um, Bancroft's interviewers where one of the soldiers, uh, California soldiers stopped off at, at, um, bodega Bay. And they were just coming in from a campaign and the Russians gave them shirt that the, the Spanish soldiers thought were silk, when in fact what they were, were polished cotton from China and they were cherry red. So that's what I've shown this gentleman on the right wearing. And I just wanted to say, the reason I've got the picture of the Fort Ross, uh, coloring book there is that I've been researching Russian American costume for about the same main, uh, length of time as I have, um, uh, California clothing. Uh, it's been harder, uh, because I don't speak Russian, but interestingly enough, very little of the information, much like in California where very little of the information about California dress is in Spanish, not much about Russian dress is available in Russian because it's kind of like, well, it's, it is almost a rule that people don't set out and describe the everyday, so Russian who come to America, they might describe a California, but they're not gonna describe the Parsis who are working around them, the, the Russian workers, because. They're just workers. They're, they're, they're every day. And so, uh, a lot of the best descriptions of the Russian American company employees are in French, German, and Spanish and, and English, and not in, um, not in Russian. Although there was one vital document that I had to go down to the Library of Congress to get that was in Latin. And I had to pull out my high school Latin and just beat my brains over translating the part about clothing in it. But it was worth it. So I'd said I had done things about Native Californians. Um, this is an illustration that I did, uh, some years ago for the Alviso project that wasn't used. But also years ago, I was given the opportunity to write an entry and a multi-volume history address that was published in England, uh, by the Burke. Company, the Berg Encyclopedia of World Dress and Fashion. And so I wrote the chapter on California Indian dress for that. So that, you know, I'm rather proud that I was able to, uh, to leave that because I've not able to include traditional Californian dress in my, uh, my costume manuals.

Damian Bacich: 14:50

I noticed the, the shawls that, uh, the women are wearing, at least one of the women, they, and maybe you've seen, they remind me of kumeyaay rabbit blankets I've seen at the Museum of Man in San Diego.

David Rickman: 15:07

Well, they certainly should because that's exactly what they are. Uh, it's interesting, it kind of woven, uh, blanket and it is woven. What they do is they take the skins and they, they. They string them out and they cut them into strings and then they weave them and they have the fur on them. And so they're, they're warm inside and out. Uh, that style of, of blanket is worn all the way up to the Arctic circle. Um, very popular. And so, yes, that's exactly what they're wearing. It's also a good way of dealing with the fact that when you're illustrating for the general public, you can't show naked people because fourth graders get the giggles. And then I just wanted to show some of the work that I did for the, uh, national Park Service. I've done a lot of work in, in the last 15 years or so, especially, I've done it for years for the National Park Service, but the last 15 years especially,'cause I've been working with an exhibit company out of Los Angeles, Henley Company, and we've done a number of these. This is actually a Santa Fe trail, uh, site in southern Colorado, and it's showing what are called comancheros. They were new Mexicans who would go out and trade with the Comanches, and they often would trade oh, blankets and, and uh, coffee and sugar and things like that for horses. And the lower on the left hand side is a picture of where this sign can be seen. And I like to joke that my art is seen in some of the most desolate parts of America. Um, this is out in the middle of nowhere as many of my waysides are.

Damian Bacich: 16:52

All right.

David Rickman: 16:54

And this is another one that I did, which was for a cotton, uh, mill in, uh, Providence, Rhode Island. And I, that was a, a great one because I got to crawl all over this reconstructed mill. And then I had to go home and, and, uh, uh, do a cutaway view of it. But I, I had to know how it worked before I could actually do that drawing. And so. Uh, going all the way down to where that mill wheel is and all the way up to the top. Uh, I was able to figure it out. Brilliant bit of engineering, but not like anything that I do for California. And then I did this, which is some of my natural history stuff, which I don't do often enough. But these are prehistoric lion and wolf that is on display at the, um, visitor center at, um, uh, in California for, um, for one of the beach sites on the beach parks.

Damian Bacich: 17:57

I'll have to go find

David Rickman: 17:58

the last, last one is actually one that I did for, um, a Cherokee Indian site, the Sequoia Birthplace Museum in Tennessee. And give you an idea that sometimes they'll do a little illustration on your computer. Or on paper. And then, uh, they blew it up to, I think, at least twice life size in order to make a mural out of it. But again, this was sort the great project I got very involved with how the Cherokee dressed and, you know, wearing turbans and these kfan like coats and such. So unlike what we normally picture American Indians dressing, and yet I think we do a disservice to the, the richness of Native American clothing and culture when we all just assume that they wore feather head dresses and buck skin.

Damian Bacich: 18:56

Right. This is, this is fascinating to see, and I guess there's one more here.

David Rickman: 19:03

And this last one is just those two Facebook pages. Uh, the groups, the Alta California clothing that I helped to administer, and the arts and skills of the Spanish Borderlands, which. To my amazement, uh, we're now at more than 3000 members on the arts and skills of the Spanish borderlands, and it grew far beyond my expectations. I thought we would just be a small group, but we have members as far away as Israel and, and Australia that, uh, writing in from time to time or at least tuning in to see what what's new.

Damian Bacich: 19:38

And I think that speaks to what we talked about earlier, the, the, the latent interest that there is out there for these sorts of topics. You know, people from Israel, 3000 people that gather together. You know, I. To, to discuss and learn about material culture in the Spanish borderlands of, of North America. It's, it's, and well, it's also a testament to you and the, the precise and, um, robust work that you do because you are serious about what you do. And, and so people know that that's a place where they're gonna exchange serious information.

David Rickman: 20:23

Well, well, thank you. Um, it, it, it had been a pleasure to, to do this and to discover just how many people find what you and I find actively fascinating. Equally fascinating. Um, it's, it's very gratifying.

Damian Bacich: 20:41

you've never been tempted to work in Hollywood.

David Rickman: 20:45

Oh, yes. And I, I'm sure you heard, or maybe you didn't hear that. I almost did.

Damian Bacich: 20:54

I don't think I knew about this.

David Rickman: 20:56

twice, I, I once, uh, I have a friend who is a costume, a well established costume designer in, in Hollywood. And years ago I went out and chatted with her and visited the set of a film she was working on in session. She's, she's really very well established. And, um, and after talking to me for a while, she very kindly said, David, you'd never survive in Hollywood because I don't respect authenticity. Um, she said, I can live with it. I know how to bend it and all of that. But, you know, she can also do very authentic when she wants to and when she's allowed to, but Hollywood doesn't allow her to. But a few years ago, thanks to my connection with the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles County, um, I was contacted by people who wanted to do a new Zorro series for the Disney Channel. And for a while there we looked like we were going to do it. And the, the, uh, natural History Museum History Department actually recommended me. That's how we connected. And I went out and visited them in, um, in Los Angeles and we had breakfast together and we talked about plots and costume and such. And as always, they assured me they wanted to be absolutely authentic. But you know, anytime you're dealing with history and Hollywood, you have to take that with a very large dose of salt. Um. We got very close. The only thing that happened was that, um, we had, um, the Hollywood Writer Strike followed by the Hollywood Actor Strike, and then a new series that came from Spain that appeared on, I think Amazon of Zoro, which was absolutely atrocious. I mean, pure, uh, game of Thrones level authenticity, and, um, that pretty much killed the project. But yeah, if anyone out there wants a consultant on early California costume, whether for Zora or not, um, let me know. Uh, or Old West generally. Um, yeah, the, the, uh, the thing about Hollywood is that you really do have to know how to work with. Both history and, uh, and producers,

Damian Bacich: 23:26

Well, you never know who may be listening to this. I'm, we're watching this video. I'm always surprised at at the reach it gets, so who knows?

David Rickman: 23:37

who knows? Well, I, I would be very pleased. Um, I think I've told you though that, um, Zoro doesn't quite make sense because Zoro is a ranchero who's protecting the rights of the missions and the Indians, which doesn't quite fit with the history. But, um, we were actually able to, to overcome that in the way we were doing the story. Um, but yeah, it was, it was a disappointment. It would've been fun to, uh, to do and see how far we could go toward making it actually look like 1830s California.

Damian Bacich: 24:12

Wow. Well, I would be, I would love to see that. Hopefully it'll happen. Who knows? Who knows?

David Rickman: 24:19

Yeah, I mean, there has never been ne, well, first of all, there's never been an authentically costumed western ever. Um, so why should I expect that there would be an authentically costumed film about early California? Uh, that, that's I think asking too much.

Damian Bacich: 24:38

You're probably right. Well, David, I, I took a lot of your time, but this is fascinating. Um, I'm looking forward to hearing more about the book. Hopefully, hopefully it won't be too long before it's out because I think a lot of people would love, would love it, not just people who work for the state parks or who are museum, uh, curators, but I just think the visual aspect is fills in a huge gap conceptually for people who are interested in history and California history and just the, the, the background of our state and the west in general, I think. Right. It's the whole, the whole west, because California really shouldn't be seen in isolation. It's part of this, this much broader, uh, geographical and cultural area. So I'm looking forward to that and be waiting for ba with beated breath for it. Well, maybe I shouldn't wait with beated breath, but be waiting for it.

David Rickman: 25:41

Probably not.

Damian Bacich: 25:42

Right, right, right.

David Rickman: 25:44

Well, I'm also looking forward to, uh, next year's conference and to seeing you there.

Damian Bacich: 25:50

in Mission Dolores, for those of you who don't know, uh, the California Missions Conference will be at Mission Dolores in San Francisco. I think we'll be celebrating the 250th anniversary. Of the founding of Mission San Francisco, the Asis and the Presidio of San Francisco, right? 1776. So you've got time to plan for it now. I believe it's the weekend of April 18th, but I will double check that.

David Rickman: 26:20

We keep moving it back and forth from April to February.

Damian Bacich: 26:24

Right.

David Rickman: 26:25

I hope it's in April. I hope I, I do hope it's in April.

Damian Bacich: 26:28

it is, it is, it is. It's been, it's been nailed down for April. I think that the, the fee, what I understand is the feedback from this year was that people, that people like having it at April rather than on the President's Day weekend, which also happens to often coincide with Valentine's Day. So it, uh,

David Rickman: 26:49

as I did this year.

Damian Bacich: 26:50

right, right. right.

David Rickman: 26:53

Well, I look forward to seeing you there.

Damian Bacich: 26:54

Likewise. Well, thanks so much, David. It's been great. I,

David Rickman: 26:59

Thank you, Damien. It is been an honor to, I'm, I'm very, uh, flattered that you asked me on. I'm grateful.

27:15

This is the California Frontier Show. If you would like to know more about the California Frontier Project, visit California frontier.net. If you would like to support the show, scroll down in the show notes and click support the show. Then be sure to tell all your friends about the podcast. If you would like to connect with me, the host, send me an email at damien@californiafrontier.net.