082: California's Forgotten Soldiers: The Californio Lancers Part 2

In this episode, we delve into the second half of an interview with Tom Prezelski, author of Californio Lancers: The First Battalion of Native Cavalry in the Far West. 

The discussion covers the period post-Civil War, focusing on the unit's deployment to Arizona and the numerous challenges they faced, including malaria, desertion, and campaigns against the Apaches and French imperialists in Northern Mexico. 

We explore figures like Salvador Vallejo, Captain Pico, and Colonel Ronstadt, as well as the diverse backgrounds of the unit's soldiers and their complex motivations for joining. 

The episode provides a comprehensive look at the battalion's legacy and traces the intersections of various historical threads in the American Southwest during the 1860s.

00:00 Introduction to the Interview
01:25 Deployment to Arizona and Challenges
02:59 Campaigns Against the Apaches and French Imperialists
04:58 Health Issues and Desertion
06:36 Confrontations and Leadership Dynamics
15:34 Recruitment and Composition of the Unit
21:50 Cultural and Linguistic Diversity
31:12 Uniforms and Disbandment
35:11 Legacy and Memorials
37:40 Conclusion and Future Projects

Transcript

Damian Bacich 0:11

Welcome to the second half of my interview with Tom Prezelski, author of the book, California Lancers, the First Battalion of Native Cavalry in the Far West. Now in the second half, we, discuss the end of the Civil War and the unit's deployment to Arizona and the different challenges and actions they took in that period. Dealing with things like malaria and desertion, but also campaigns against the Apaches and dealing with French imperialists in Northern Mexico. We also get into things like their uniforms, language barriers, different leadership dynamics, and, and commanders like, uh, Salvador Bajo and Captain Pico, Colonel Ronstadt, other interesting figures, and ultimately into their legacy, their ultimate legacy of the California lancers. So listen now to the second half of my conversation with Tom Prezelski. and then, eventually they were, they were sent to Arizona, as you mentioned.

Tom Prezelski 1:31

Mm-hmm.

Damian Bacich 1:32

Um, when did that happen and what was, and why did that happen? Okay, that happens. Well, they first start talking about it toward the end of the, um. Toward the end of the Civil War, uh, by like, uh, late, uh, late winter, early spring in the, uh, when the war is still going, uh, of 1865 for various reasons that you'll have to read about in the book, because they get very complicated. They aren't able to bring the whole battalion together until, um, the summer of, uh, 1865, by which time the war officially is over. But, um, offic the war in one. In some ways the war is over. I mean, you know, the, the, the Confederate army has surrendered Appomattox, but the, uh, recruitment is continuing, especially in the west. Uh, troops are still deployed in on the, in the East coast. The troops are still deployed in the south for reconstruction duty. So, um, it's, it's very. The, um, the war is still on in the minds of the military planners. And of course the important thing is, is that the war is still going on in Sonora and Mexico, and that's why they're sent to Arizona there. Um, there's kind of two things going on. Number one, uh, they need more soldiers in Arizona to fight the Apaches. Uh, the original group of California volunteers have all been discharged. Uh, they've had their three year enlistments, so they need to get to grab up any soldiers. They can send them to Arizona to fight the Apaches. Uh, general Mason is planning a massive campaign against the Apaches. Um, the, um, the, uh, the other thing of course is that. The French have invaded Sonora, and because the French have invaded Sonora, the imperialists are able to take over Sonora. They're able to kick out the Republican, uh, government that was in Sonora, the governor of Sonora, his army is, has been completely broken. Uh, him and, uh, his, uh, one of his officers who is a guy by the name of Ronstadt, by the way. That's, that's, uh, it's very important if you're from Tucson. Uh, so Governor Pesqueda and, and Colonel Ronstadt are fleeing into Arizona. They actually arrive in Arizona at the same time the Native Cavalry does. And, uh, so Ronstadt, uh, Frederick Ronstadt and, and, um, governor Pesqueda kind of set up while the, the Native Cavalry are coming in and kind of setting up what becomes known as Fort Mason. Uh, the um. Colonel Ronstadt and, and Governor Pesqueda are setting up, uh, kind of a ad hoc capital of Sonora in Arizona. So they're actually in the United States running a Mexican government at a place called Kavas, uh, which is still, uh, which is now part of Cocky National Monument. Yeah. Or sorry, national Park. And, um, so the native cavalry gets there and, uh, I guess a lot of activity has slowed down because that's, uh, they arrived in the middle of what is kind of the high malaria season in Arizona. And if, I mean, obviously in Arizona, the, you have to locate your post where there's water. And back in those days, the only places there were water were basically swamps. And they were, uh, a lot of, uh, a lot of flies and, and in other insects that carry things like malarial fever and typhoid and stuff. Uh, and of course they weren't used to this at all. Uh, the folks who, there were some other soldiers there from Sonora who just fared this just fine, but the folks in from California did not do so well. Um, but, uh, so there's this period of maybe a month or two where nearly all the soldiers are sick. Uh, now while this is happening, uh, some of the soldiers who weren't so sick were actually sent into Sonora because soldiers who had deserted en route were rumored to have been captured by the imperialist army and held at Magdalena. And this is like one of the strangest stories. In the whole Native cavalry saga, uh, the company A and B, the, the, the ones who are well enough are sent down there basically to recover these deserters. They confront the Imperial army, uh, and well, number one, when I say imperial army, uh, there's a, there's some wonderful description of what these guys were, and they, they were not, uh, they seem to have been like these, these conscripts without uniforms and with like, they were armed with muskets and stuff, but still they were the imperial army. And the, um, there's this confrontation where Captain Pico basically is trying to start a war, or apparently is trying to start a war. Uh, and, uh, someone, uh, someone talks him down and eventually he, he returns home, but on the way home, he accidentally shoots himself in the foot while. Pursuing what he thought were Apaches. And, uh, bear in mind, he's supposed to be the greatest horseman in all of California. Uh, he fell off his horse, accidentally shot himself in the foot, and then he ends up spending the rest of his time in Arizona, convalescing either in Tuba or Tucson. Um, and at one point there's this account of him, uh, being taken back to California by one of the, kind of the regular supply wagons that, uh, comes into Arizona. And he, um, so he, he kind of, he doesn't, uh, ultimately he doesn't serve the whole time with his, with his company. And eventually he does, uh, when he dies, I think it's like 1909 or something, they mention he died because of an infected foot. And I always kind of wonder if that goes back to this incident or if it's. Another incident where he was wounded at the Battle of San Pasqua when he was a very young man. So did they then, um, they did wind up having also, uh, campaigns against the Apaches, you mentioned? Yes. Yes, they were, um, at one point, it's January of 1866. Um, and, uh, which kind of tells you a little bit, um, about what the state of their morale was because the Civil War was over, the, uh, Sonora for the most part was no longer an an issue. Uh, uh, they, it was under, it was getting to be under Republican control, so there was no threat coming from there. And also they were on three year enlistments, and so they were all anxious to go home and get discharged. Um, general Mason, however, wanted to. Do this campaign. And, um, there's a, uh, there's actually a, uh, there actually is an incident. There are a few incidents where like, uh, there's a mine if you're, I don't know, there's much listeners are familiar with Arizona history. Uh, there's a mine near a town called avac called Sarah Colorado. And, um, apparently that was attacked by Apaches. And they, the folks at Sarah Colorado sent, uh, a message to Fort Mason saying, Hey, we need some help here. And gen and, uh, current and, uh, major Cremini, who at that point was in charge of the Post, uh, just said, Hey, no, we can't, we can't spare any men. Too many people are sick. We don't have enough weapons. And General Mason wants to send us out to fight Apaches, uh, to fight Cochise, uh, you know, in east of the, east of the post. So anyway, there's this, this massive campaign, which would have worked under slightly different circumstances. Basically, general Mason's idea was to have troops, uh, basically marching kind of a circuit around, uh, what is now Cochise County, uh, and, uh, to keep the Apaches constantly in motion and eventually exhaust them and forced them to surrender and, and, uh, presumably be placed on reservation. Um, which is a strategy that worked under General Crook 20 years later. But, uh, Mason did not have the, the, the resources that Crook did in terms of like, uh, communications infrastructure or anything like that. He just had the native California cavalry and some other California volunteer units and. Strangely enough, some volunteer units from New Mexico. At one point they, they actually crossed paths with the volunteer units from New Mexico. So the, um, they, they're marching, it's Captain Jimeno, I think it's Captain Jimeno and I don't remember the other one. One Jimeno is leading, uh, a detachment native cavalry. And I mentioned him specifically'cause he kept a journal of where he was going. Um, it's a bit of a mess. The first thing they have to do is they have to find their scouts. Uh, their scouts never reported to Fort Mason, so they actually have to go into, uh, into Sonora to a town called Santa Cruz and find their scouts. They know their scouts are like hanging out in Santa Cruz. And I picture like it, this kind of very cinematic picture of. You know, captain Jimeno walking into a bar and saying, you, you're supposed to be our scout. Come with us. So they find these, they, they, they get their, uh, their two scouts who are both, uh, I believe are both kind of assimilated. OTA Indians, I don't remember their names, but they're, they, they turn up over and over again. Um, and they're, um, they go across what's now called the Sulfur Springs Valley to the Ikawa. And then, uh, you know what, uh, Fort, well, actually to Fort Bowie in the Cher Kawa Mountains for Bowie of course, was established by the California volunteers a few years earlier. At this point, it was basically kind of these rock hovels in the, in the mountain side. It was not a pleasant place to be. And uh, they discovered. For Bowie actually did not have enough food for the soldiers. They were waiting on a shipment of food. So they, they, they go south along the, um, ow mountains towards Sonora, and they happened to meet the supply wagon that has all the food and they end up escorting the supply wagon. It, it, it gets to be a mess, but they, um, they find sign of the Apaches, uh, porphyria. Jimeno actually does confront a group of Apaches, uh, at, uh, what's now called the Wilcox Playa a big dry lake bed in, uh, in what's now Cochise County. And he pursues the Apache all the way to the Dragoon Mountains at what's now called the Cochise Stronghold. And then they kind of disperse after that. Um, one thing that becomes clear. In addition to this, this campaign being really disorganized, is that the, um, the Apaches are already leaving. Cochise is already just packing up and leaving Arizona, going to Sonora where he thinks he's gonna be safer. Um, and though in the end, general Mason and General McDowell will take a lot of credit for driving the Apaches out of Arizona. If you look at the full historical record, what's going on in, in, in, um, in Sonora as well as Arizona, it's pretty clear that the Apaches were leaving and they, they weren't pursuing them. They were just following them. Uh, and uh, and we definitely know they were not carrying lances in this campaign because, uh, major Cremini. Mentions it in, in a, a letter where he says, when they went out on campaign, they exhausted the entire supply of, uh, of firearms that that was being kept at Fort Mason. So they clearly turned in their lances and picked up rifles or carvings before they went out. So there's clearly a time when, when lancers is just sort of a ceremonial title. Yeah. Yeah. Who were these, just kind of circling back to the beginning of the, who were these men who were recruited and, and how did they go about recruiting them? I mean, what kind of incentives were they given to join? Well, um, definitely for companies c and d, it, there was a lot of economic, uh, there were a lot of economic issues. Uh, the, there was, uh. There were kind of, during the Civil War era in southern California, there were kind of three big disasters that occurred. There was floods, uh, there was a smallpox outbreak, and then there was a drought. And, um, I may have them in the wrong order, but they were all in rapid succession. And, uh, especially the ranches were in really bad shape. And of course, the, uh, the vaqueros were either itinerant or they were kind of, uh, almost surfs in some of the ranches, uh, depending on like their own personal circumstances. And I think a lot of the, especially the vaqueros and, and people in general,'cause the economy was hit as a whole, they just didn't have any work. And I, I, I know this is, this is precisely, there's actually a mention of this when. They're talking about the recruitment of company C when there's mention of it in, in the, uh, in the newspapers. That, uh, basically the De Lara family in particular was hit really hard by the, um, by the, the, the drought and their vaqueros had no work. And so they, it was very, I'm not sure if, I mean, given kind of the, the almost kind of paternal power that the De La Garra family had in Santa Barbara at that point, if they were just telling their, if they were just ordering their vaqueros to, oh, you're joining the Army now. And they said, okay. Or if it was, Hey, um, we're not gonna be able to pay you, but you can join the Army. I, I don't know how that worked. I, I, you know, I'cause. You know, you look at it kind of like in terms of when there's like a civil war in Sonora, uh, you know, all the vaqueros work for the asado as soldiers, and then when the, the conflict is over, they go back to, to herding cows, right? So, I don't know if, if that was the dynamic that was going on or if it was, uh, that these people were actually volunteering because that was an option for them. Company A was a little different'cause there was actually some patriotic fervor involved, uh, because, uh, uh, captain Pico was such a powerful political figure in San, in San Jose. Uh, and he had given this very patriotic speech, which is, uh, of, I, of course it's in the book, but it, it was off, off, printed in the papers. Um, and company B was, was weirder. Uh, I'm pretty sure a lot of that was economic. Some of it was patriotic, but initially, uh, there were a lot of French folks joining company B. A lot of them deserted. I saw that, that that group of French soldiers. Yeah. And then, but that gets weirder. Okay. So you have the, these, these Frenchmen who join most of them dessert. I'm pretty sure it's because of the politics. Uh, you even have them, they're even, there's a detachment that's sent to Angel Island. I'm not sure exactly what they did on Angel Island. I, I take it they did something about maintaining the, the battery there or something. But um, they actually tried to Desert Angel Island. It's like, how do you desert from Angel Island? So I actually found an account of someone who deserted Angel Island. Well, not a Native cavalry soldier, but he actually swam to Te Baron. Wow. Um, and apparently he had done this multiple times, and at one point he actually drowned in the process. So, um, yeah, so there's, they're in different place. There are different places, different motives. Um, but he eventually, when, uh, captain Jimeno takes over after I think there's almost complete turnover in the company. There's only a handful of people who are from the initial group that's recruited. Um, captain Jimeno starts recruiting more kind of, uh, Latin American immigrants. Californias, uh, and I, I don't know exactly what their motives were, but, um, but it, it, it transforms the company. However, this is the weird part, right toward the very end, shortly before they leave California to go to Arizona. There's a group of French Surnamed soldiers who are all recruited all at once, and I think they may even be signing up in Los Angeles, uh, at, from Barrett's. But they, um, it turns out that these are people who deserted the French Army in Sono. In Mexico? In Mexico. Uhhuh, yeah. I don't know if they were actually from Sonora, but they were, um, there's actually mention of of, oh, these guys were in their, and they, they're, they're listing their birthplace as like Algiers. And in, in one case, uh, one of the soldiers may actually be African. I mean like, you know,'cause they list them as being dark complected and stuff. So this was a truly interracial unit, you know, because you had Native Americans. And Mexican Americans, Anglos, and then at least one African. Do you know anything about the, now that you mention it, anything about the Native Americans who participated and why they might have? Um, well, I, I think, I mean you've had, you've had shows about this, that, uh, the notion of ethnicity in, in, uh, frontier really complicated. I think some of them just basically considered themselves Mexicans and, um, some of them are from the mission tribes who are in a lot of way what they call the mission tribes. They wouldn't use this term now, but they, uh, they are kind of assimilated into Mexican culture in a lot of ways, though. They, they do maintain their own cultural identity. Um, there's a lot of Yaki. Uh, the Yas, of course, initially came to California during the Gold Rush from Sonora because they were already in the mining industry in Sonora. So they had skills that they could bring into California. So there are, uh, quite a few yas. Um, and of course it's hard to break them out because they don't list the ethnicity. They just list, you know, complexion and then, you know, oh, this guy's from, this guy's from this one village in Sonora, that's largely Yaki, so he might be Yaki. Um, and of course the Yakes were, Yakes have a complicated history as far as like their cultural identity because they assimilated into Mexican culture entirely on their terms. So, um, so, uh, again, they're not going to be to an Anglo American. They're not gonna be distinguishable from other Mexicans, but, you know, in their interactions with, uh. With other Mexicans and Mexican Americans. People are gonna know, and people are gonna recognize like little linguistic things and, and that sort of stuff thing. But um, yeah, so they are there and um, so again, it's a very racially mixed unit. One of the things that's interesting is when you, you, you go through the pension documents, there's at least one soldier where there's like a little note in the pension documents and documentation that says, um, this man is an Indian. Are we supposed to be giving him a pension? And of course he gets the ruling from higher up is, yeah, he served in the army. It doesn't matter if he's an indie. Wow. Yeah. So remarkably progressive, uh, attitude for, but you know, it's reconstruction era, so there's, there's a lot of. A lot of that going on. Um, so, uh, we were JI would just, uh, read reading excerpts from Antonio Cord's, um, times in the gold fields in Alta California or in California, and he mentioned Sonoran. There are a lot of Sonoran. Mm-hmm. So oftentimes when those Sonoran are mentioned, they could have been Yaki. Is that, um, some of them, yeah. I mean there's even some place names in like the gold country. There's like Yaki Creek and that sort of thing. Oh. So yeah. Um, and I used to work for the Paki Tribe, and there was actually, there's a small Yaki community to this day in Fresno. I don't know if it dates back that far, but, uh, the presence, and of course in, in, in Arizona, we have a rather colorful and complicated history with, with the Yaki tribe and, and the, the different communities that are, are located. Basically between Tucson and Phoenix. And then of course their heartland is, is in Sonora. Now the complicated part is in Sonora, the Yas were supporting Maximilian for very complicated reasons. Interesting. So then, um, was initially, was Spanish, mainly the language used, or I guess since they had very few officers, it would've been English in terms of their training and commands, et cetera. Most of the officers were bilingual. Even the ones who were Anglo were bilingual. Uh, cremini spoke Spanish fluently, uh, and he was, he was known to be really major. Cremini was, uh, the second, uh, battalion commander for the Native Cavalry. Um. He, so he spoke both, uh, English and Spanish fluently. Most of the officers spoke English and Spanish. Uh, there is, uh, one officer, at least one officer, uh, Lieutenant Soto, they say he doesn't, he barely speaks. Um, so there, then there's some controversy over, well, should we have officers that can't speak English. But of course, um, you know, even like there's one of the D LARAs, uh, one of, there's a Lieutenant d Lara, he is said to really speak poor English, but they concede that because of the, the kind of the power the De la Garra family has in Santa Barbara, uh, there's no way they could have anybody who wasn't a member of the family in the chain of command. So that's one of the concessions they make. But, um, most of the officers speak both English and Spanish. Uh, could we talk a little bit about their first battalion commander, please? Yes. Yeah. Their, their first battalion commander was Salvador Vallejo. And if, if you haven't, if you've heard of Salvador Vallejo's brother, but haven't heard of Salvador, there's good reason for that. Apparently. Um, Mariano Vallejo was, you know, famous for being very, um, smart and cultured and, and, uh, this great kind of diplomat as well as a political leader. Uh, by the time the native cavalry's organized, I think he's already in his sixties, so he's not, they don't, uh, turn to him to take any role in the, in the battalion. Instead, they talked to his brother. Salvador Vallejo Salvador's, his younger brother, has extensive military experience as a militia officer, both in California and in the under the United States. Um, and, um, supposedly one of the accounts of him is that, that in his numerous campaigns against various tribal folks in California, he had, he had broken nearly every bone in his body. That was his, uh, that was almost like a qualification. Well, he's been injured more times than anyone else. Uh, he turns out to be everything that his brother wasn't. He's like known to be rude. Uh, a lot of, uh, a lot of women just don't like him. They stay away from him. In fact, I think Mariano Vallejo and his wife actually had a dispute, uh. And his, uh, his wife did not want Salva Valejo living on the property. Mariano insisted. So she, she went away for a while, uh, and he was just apparently just a really foul, foul guy and was not very good at doing his duties as, as major of the battalion. Uh, there's a lot of paperwork that just wasn't being done. Um, he had apparently, uh, I'm not gonna say commissioned, but he had appointed some officers and nobody knew where they were. Uh, and they were never actually, they're not on the roles or anything. It's like, oh, no, no. I appointed this guy to do recruiting out there. And then people get confused about who's supposed to be doing the recruiting. So he was eventually, uh, forced out. And then he writes, uh, rather, I think he narrates, uh, a, uh. Kind of a, a memoir, I think, to Bancroft. And when he, they asked him about the Native Cavalry, he says, well, I felt I had to, uh, I had to do something to help the union. The cause of the union, because that's the only thing that stands between, uh, it was something along the lines of, it's the lithian stance between, uh, d democracy and Republican government in the Western hemisphere and the tyranny of the European power. So obviously he's looking at the, the whole conflict in Mexico. Um, and he, and he even says, I don't care about, I don't care about the, the African Americans that they're, they're very irrelevant. It's about, you know, preserving democracy and Republican government. Um, and, um, but then he says, but I'm not gonna say anything else. He doesn't give any accounts of what he did as commander of Native Cavalry. He just says, I felt I had to do it. And that's it. Yeah. That would make, well, if, if that was how his command went, the way you described it makes sense, huh? Yeah, exactly. How did the, uh, how did the unit dress? What were they, did they have regular uniforms? Unfortunately, they did, apparently. Yeah. I was, unfortunately, yeah, I was, I was hoping, um, there's a book that, uh, a friend of mine wrote in Texas about the, uh, the Mexican American unit, uh, union units in Texas. Uh, they also had, and he thinks they may have been lancers as well, there's no definite proof of this, but he has on the cover a photo of one of the, uh, I think he's a corporal in one of the, the, these Texas units, and he is wearing just a standard union cavalry uniform. But he has a sombrero and it, and it's like, oh, that's great. I, I, I hope, I hope I have evidence that that's the way these guys dress, but I'm thinking the fact that I don't have evidence either way about their uniforms is an indication that they just wore the same uniforms that everyone else did. Um, there's even, there's even like some, um, when the, um, when Captain Pico is in the Humboldt District, there's even just some throwaway comment about them throwing their caps in the air. And it's, it's like, oh, they just had the same caps that the other soldiers had. Although I, I'm pretty sure that most of them, most of the California volunteers wore the, uh, the hardy hat without any, um, decoration on it, just as a good, practical, wide brimmed hat. Uh, and I, I think. I think that's probably how they dressed. I see. So how was the, uh, unit eventually disbanded or, or, you know, closed down? What? It was a pretty brief time, it seems that they were in existence. Yeah. Um, they, uh, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm running low on power here. Uh, they just had the three year window that all the volunteers unit, all the volunteer units had. And, um, their, their, uh, I think their enlistments all expired in March of 1866. So it was just kind of, you know, bur standard bureaucratic stuff. They, um, they march out of Arizona. Um, one of the companies, and I'm not entirely sure why actually gets on, uh. Ocean going, well, they get on, at, at Yuma, they get on a, a steamer and then they get on an ocean going steamer around the Gulf of California and get dropped off, I think in Los Angeles. And then they march to San to back to Santa Barbara and have a parade. Uh, but the other units had just come back. Um, apparently their uniforms were in a really bad state because there are accounts of them getting their final settlement on their salaries and all just rushing to clothing stores. Uh, so, um, it's probably the same story you see repeated with a lot of the California volunteer units especially. They just, they just come back. The only ones who get any special recognition are, uh, our company see in Santa Barbara because of course, uh, of the influence of the d la Garra family and that these people were so, um. Okay. We're so, uh, such a big part of that community. That unit is very much about Santa Barbara, uh, to an, to an extent that the others are not about their places they're from. So, is there, and just to wrap up,'cause I know you run a low on power. Yeah. Is there any place that, um, we can go either in California, Arizona, or elsewhere? Any museum exhibits, any monuments to this unit or Yeah. Are they somewhat forgotten? Um, I know there's a guy in San Jose who's been trying to get, uh, the Graves memorialized. He's found a, located a few of the graves. He located Pico's grave in San Jose. So, so those exist. Um, I know at the Deera house, they, they. In Santa Barbara, they had a, an exhibit about them at one point, and they may do that again. Other than that, drum barracks in Los Angeles has, uh, has a little bit, um, the, to me, the best place to go is in Beck, where they, uh, in Arizona, where they actually have one of the native cavalry, lances on display. And, uh, I, I, I, I took issue with the, uh, interpretation and I, I, I think they've corrected it, uh, since, since then. So yeah, there's really not, again, yeah, these guys are unfortunately, uh, largely forgotten. The California volunteers in general are kind of forgotten, but, um, these guys in particular, I think because. They kind of come in the middle of the war. They don't really have a lot of colorful stuff that they're doing. Um, and then, uh, I think, you know, California and, you know, of course this is something you're fighting against. California has a a and Arizona as well. They, they has a very, uh, kind of dismissive view of its own history and, and people are very much wanting to move on and, and make progress rather than look back. And there's some virtue in that. But also it means that some of these very colorful stories that are important to who we are get forgotten. I agree. I agree. Well, hopefully this will help your book and this interview and so on. We'll, we'll help. Memorialize these, uh, companies as battalion a little bit more. And I do think it's an important part of, of the history of the West, and I'm, I'm glad I learned about it and glad I got to talk to you. Um, Tom Prezelski, do you have any other projects going on right now? Uh, I'm researching a book about one of the territorial legislatures in Arizona. Probably not something that interests you necessarily, but, um, the weird connection with the Native Cavalry is when I was doing the research, one of the big issues was everyone has trouble getting to the capitol during the 1885 session. And it, and there's a actually a newspaper account saying this is the worst winter. Since 18 65, 66, and I'm thinking, oh, wait a minute. That's when the Native cavalry was in Arizona, and it gave them a lot of problems then. So it's like, okay, I know about this. So, yeah. Well, well good. Well, we'll look forward to it. I'm sure there's interest, there'll be interesting information in there, especially if it ties into the Native cavalry.

Tom Prezelski 38:31

Yeah.

Damian Bacich 38:32

Well, thank you so much for your time. Um, this was, this was fascinating and once again, a little plug for the book, California Lancers, the first Battalion of Native Cavalry in the far West 1863 to 1866 by Tom Prezelski. Yeah. University of Oklahoma Press. Uh, that's right. University of Oklahoma Press. I mean, they, they do some great things about Yeah. California history and Western history in general. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. Well, well, thank you.

39:03

I.